Forums » In the PIT » Rule Clarification
Messages for Rule Clarification
Posted by cobras63
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Jul 19, 2012 06:47 AM |
This happened last night, and I was hoping to get a clarification.
Receiver makes a catch. Defender 1 makes contact with Receiver. Ball comes loose, Defender 2 catches the loose ball in the air.
I say that's a tag, dead ball. It was contact with a defender that makes the ball come loose, and doesn't seem to me to be any different than tagging the ball, knocking it loose.
Thoughts?
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Posted by neil72
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Jul 19, 2012 06:54 AM |
I see it as a dead ball as well.......
the only way it wouldn't be is if the refs are ruling that the player never "stopped rotation" and thus it was never a catch, and that the defender just caught the "deflected" ball.
i suppose it depends on how the refs called it. I am guessing they didn't feel the offensive player caught the ball and controlled/stopped rotation.
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Posted by cobras63
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Jul 19, 2012 07:01 AM |
Sure, I see that. But the receiver caught the ball, took a step with the ball in his hands, and then was run into.
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Posted by neil72
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Jul 19, 2012 08:39 AM |
Then it should absolutely be a tag.......
i just have a feeling the issue might not be that the ref didn't know the rule on the play though, and that he felt there was some lack of control or something. I think all of the refs would know that there are no fumbles, and must have just felt a general lack of control or something on this particular play.
I hear what you are saying and in your opinion this was clearly caught, but i think this would be what the ref in question would be disputing.
Did he give you an explantion of his call? Did he say your guy caught the ball, and then on contact it came out? On a close play like that i think all the refs i have had in the Pit will explain why they called what they did in a certain situation if you ask at the time, or after the game, as long as you are not being abusive towards them.
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Posted by cobras63
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Jul 19, 2012 10:13 AM |
Yeah, his comment was that the ball came out before the tag. I replied that there was no way that could have happened, since contact with Defender 1 caused the ball to come out. The reply was that simple contact doesn't necessarily constitute a tag. I agree with that (playing for the ball, for example, when contesting a pass), but in this case, Defender 1 was definitely not trying to knock the ball down.
The refs who were doing the game are fine refs, and I don't have any problems with them at all. I ref and I play with these guys without a problem. It just seemed like a strange interpretation of what a tag is.
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Posted by neil72
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Jul 19, 2012 10:32 AM |
Shoulda thrown the challenge flag on this one i suppose :)
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Posted by barracudas
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Jul 19, 2012 11:05 AM |
Here's another one:
Contact is made with the ball by the receiving team on a kickoff/punt. Ball then proceeds into the endzone and recovered by receiving team but downed inside the endzone.
Is that a safety or single?
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Posted by cwentz
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Jul 20, 2012 03:52 AM |
@Barracudas - I believe that is a single, as the ball was KICKED, then became dead in the endzone on the tackle. Where a safety is scored when the ball is carried or fumbled, then becomes dead in the endzone.
So in your example since the ball traveled across the goal line after being kicked (even tho contact was made) and then became dead in the endzone without leaving the endzone, a single is scored. - I may be wrong, but that's how i would call it.
@Cobras63 - A tag is made with the hands, or by jumping over a downed opponent right (example i cant tag you with my feet, legs, back, butt, head). So where was the contact made? - were his hands touching or about to touch the receiver? - if so the ball is dead on contact. If the receiver caught the ball, then ran into the back of def 1, the ball came out, I would say live ball. Im guessing he ran into his chest (by your description), in which case i would say down by contact, as def 1 is square to the ball carrier. Im sure this was a situation where the play wasn't seen perfectly and call had to be made, right or wrong. As a ref you know what i mean.
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Posted by L Mitchnik
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Jul 20, 2012 05:33 AM |
Actually I made the call on the play Chris is questioning and this is how I saw it:
Receiver catches ball and clearly has control but then loses control before an actual tag is made. The defender did not actually touch him with his hands as a chest touching the receiver when trying to play the ball does not constitute a tag. Then a second defender catches the ball in the air, thus an interception. Anyway, that is how I saw it. If I had seen the first defender actually touch the receiver with a hand it would have been dead ball, I did not see this, thus a live ball still.
Leslie
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Posted by cobras63
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Jul 20, 2012 08:03 AM |
Hey Les, I appreciate your answer. I think you know me well enough to know that I might disagree, but I don't expect perfection from anyone.
From where I was standing (which is not where you were standing) I saw a completed pass, and then a tag by contact. That being the case, the ball would have been dead.
Anyway, I'm good.
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